ONLINE GD AT URPERCENTILE : IIMS SHOULD START ENGINEERING COURSES (II)
As there were many people wanting to participate in online CHAT GD, we had two GDs at the same time on the same topic . The topic of GD was :
If IITs can go into Management education, IIMs should also start Engineering courses.
Rani Mehta, Swati Mukherjee, Summet 4me , Saul Hudson and a_i_sh2000 did well in this GD
www.UrPercentile.com: Introductions please
niks_bhargava: nywz hi im nikhil bhargava
Swati mukherjee: I am Swati, working in Oracle Hyd...
rani mehta: hi i m rani i have done be mech and work ex 14 months
navin hotwani: i m navin hotwani from yavatmal and doing my final year BBA
saul hudson: Hi . this is nikhil sharma. i am currently in my final year engineering (electronics and telecommunication branch) from RAIT(mumbai univ) mythreyi manepalli: hi this is mythreyi ,chemical grad
nilesh gupta: I am Nilesh Gupta B.tech final year in electronics Engg with call frm NMIMS
sumeet4me: Hi... I m Sumeet from Mumbai, a CA working since last 15 months..
niks_bhargava: hi guyz i got a call from nmims, and a score of 88 in snap.
www.UrPercentile.com: The topic of the GD : IF IITs can go into Management education, IIMs should also start Engineering courses
navin hotwani: well as we know that IIT is known for the technical professional courses and IIM is known for its Mangement courses
niks_bhargava: iits are the premier institute for engineering in india and likewise iims are also in the field of mngment
mythreyi manepalli: iits have provided an extension to their graduate progrtams by introducing manageemnt course
nilesh gupta: To start off :I say that progression is the aspiration of any paerson on this earth.
navin hotwani: so what we say that a person can try to be all rounder but many a times it loses its quality
www.UrPercentile.com: No one-liners. Don’t be in a hurry to send message. Think and write complete paragraphs.
Swati mukherjee: But when IITs are ready to diversify why not IIMs...IITs r trying 2 make a complete professional out of an individual... starting from technical prowess to managerial abilities...so i think IIMS can also diversify and expand their scope
rani mehta: only reason for iims to go into engineeering should not be coz iits r in managment. if they r serious abt it then ya i think they should go into engineering
sumeet4me: Hi everyone.. I will say that.. Engineering involves study of specialized science.. Reason for IITs to go into Management is that everyone.. however techi he may be needs management.. but not the other way round..
navin hotwani: so i would suggest that they shall be the same as they are now and maintain there quality education
nilesh gupta: Everybody wants to take the next leap and in this case we have questions abt india,s premier institutes IIT andIIM, Both the insti r well known and have high reputaion
mythreyi manepalli: but,iims need to step back into graduate curriculm, seperate itself rrom its flagship course
niks_bhargava: but like iits are providing premier education in techno nd now mngmnt too so why cant iims provide tat
rani mehta: no sumeet dats not true, its required both sides otherwise y wud all managment institues prefer student with engg. background. i think it wud be good for iims to diversify but they can do that by expansion too, no need to change the field
Swati mukherjee: yes i agree with you mmythyreyi
navin hotwani: i would say that engineer cannot survive without management education so it is must for them , afterall everyone after education ,in some or other, do some business
nilesh gupta: the question is abt resources, well in today's business engg and management r not exclusive of each other
Swati mukherjee: engineer can definietly survive,,, but a managemnet degree, makes him an all round professional... the question is about whether iims should provide graduate level education.. lets not diversify..
a_i_s_h2000: There is no problem in IIMs starting engineering courses. However, they need to take care that their reputation as a management scholl should not suffer.
mythreyi manepalli: resources can be obtained nilesh but the initiative , is it necessary?
rani mehta: yes i agree with swati engg. can survive without managment
Swati mukherjee: Initiative is available... but probably iims think that they have already estabvlished themselves as a preemier brand... so they dont feel the need to diversify...
nilesh gupta: An engineer needs to have some concepts of mangaement and vice versa
navin hotwani: that what i say try to do something new but dont destroy ur quality , well nilesh it not always the case that management students need engineering knowledge
saul hudson: i think india has a large number of trained graduates who are making a foray into the corporate world... as we all know , not all get into the iims,,,,there exist about 1000 other b schools in india... it goes without saying that their standard of imparting education is not comparable to the iims...so i believe the iims would be in a better position in investing their energies and faculties in strengthening their roots in india by actually lending their expertise to the varied b schools in india....this by not diversifying towards something that they were not designed to do
rani mehta: engg. needs some basic concept of managment and dats y they r included in their syllabus too
Swati mukherjee: there is a lot of difference rani between what mgnmt is imparted during engg and during mgmt.,.
navin hotwani: we are having a lot more specialisations in management so we need not to worry abt technical knowledge
a_i_s_h2000: Also, IIMB has started a PGPSEM course especially for the software people in software comapnies wanting to pursue a career in management
nilesh gupta: yes it is swati
Swati mukherjee: the two are not correlated...
sumeet4me: Education provided by IIMs is still management..
saul hudson: well ,, engineering certainly cannot survive without management..... it takes finesse to design a product but of wht use is the product if there is no one to market it?
rani mehta: i wud agree with slash i mean if iims wanna diversify then they should open new institutes or expand or do collobration with other institutes. Y wud they wanna enter in engineering field
nilesh gupta: consider a manager wants to upgrade his software services, plethora of srvices are available, manager has no technical knowlegdge, and engg does not have idea of reuirements which r in manager's mind
navin hotwani: what i would like to stress upon is that Management can survive alone but engineers cannot
niks_bhargava: but then also according to me there is a lot of scope for the iims to open up their fields of education nd provide gud quality education in the field of technical educxation
Swati mukherjee: engineering can survive... but its the question of iims proving themselves in more then one area of study... what I meant is that iims have established themselves as a good mgmnt institute,,, so they need a lot of initiative to diversify
navin hotwani: nilesh the solution to it is consultency
a_i_s_h2000: Accoding to swati, IIMs feel that they have established their brand then they are wrong considering that they have to go far when we compare them to other B-schools across the globe
www.UrPercentile.com: No one-liners. Don’t be in a hurry to send messages. Think and write complete paragraphs.
sumeet4me: Its not Engineering v/s management guys i suppose.. its about if IIMs should foray into specialized fields..
navin hotwani: well they are proving it right now they need not to have specified engineering courses, IIMs are giving technical education with compilation to management,so thats enough for a person to get in engineering feild
rani mehta: n-4 its not really true, u have ur managment to control al ur other activities and u can do designing and stuff too so hardcore engg could survive
niks_bhargava: hey navin wat r they courses tht r offrd by iims in the field of technical edu.. tat u were referring
sumeet4me: Management education has to be for the benefit of all.. It assumes that u dont require specialized knowledge to be a good manager..
Swati mukherjee: Engineering and management are distinct fields but whats required is that the iims prove themselves in both of them
nilesh gupta: How will we resolve the conflict.It culd have been avoided if either person had a little knowldge of others field
navin hotwani: nilesh the courses are pgp in systems,in IT and Computer Networks
rani mehta: ya they can do diversification in the same field but if they really wanna get into engg. field then they have to c dat their brand image is not hurt and the education level in the course they offer for various engg. field is upto the level as we expect the iim brand to hold
sumeet4me: Management itself is a field which has been vastly unexplored... I dont think IIMs should put in their resources into something which IITs and IIS are already taking care of..
Rohit Gautam: very true..its not necessary that if a person is not an MBA..then he/she couldn't make wonders..or do appreciably well in the bussiness
a_i_s_h2000: We should consider the issue that why would IIMs feel the need to start engg courses when they have to go so far in the management programme itself
Rohit Gautam: Dhirubhai Ambani...Jamshedji Tata..and all...were they all MBA's??Were they IITians??NO!, what they were...were, "Innovators", they were "good thnkers"
Swati mukherjee: sumeet iims dont assume anything ... and a good manager doesnt have to know engg... its the question of iims proving themselves in engg as well
niks_bhargava: but every person should luk beyond to wat he is
rani mehta: i mean they should make sure that they just dont enter in this field coz iits r in their field. iits have gone in to managment but they have maintained their level of education. iims wud have to make sure dat they do it too
navin hotwani: IIM stands for Indian Institute of Management, so if it want to start engg. couses it has to first of all change its name, and if once name is changed then the image is lost for IIMs
a_i_s_h2000: Yes there is need of good engg institutions in the contry but that does not mean IIMs should take the burden on themselves.
Swati mukherjee: yes true... but rohit we are talking about iims diversifying themseleves... whcih is not wrong
niks_bhargava: so we shud all luk beyond ourselves nd lykwise iims shud also strt up vth thchnical edu..
sumeet4me: IIMs have a motto of excelling in management education... It will be something like diluting the purpose for which they stand
Swati mukherjee: why not... nikhil.. when iits can take the burden why cant iims
Rohit Gautam: so are IIT's and IIM's appreciating these things which we are talking of??No!Rather,these have become the places of ensuring a good job..and thats it
saul hudson: exactly as raniu said earlier ,,, it is upto the iims to diversify in the same field,,, the field in which they have acjieved expertise ,,,, the iims instead should go about improvising on wht they have achieved so far instaed of diversifying into a totally new field altogether
mythreyi manepalli: mba course provided by the iits is like any post graduate program provided to the bachelor graduates programs it already established but an iim foraying into engineering is notlike that,its certainely doesnt help much to their mba intitiative sumeet4me: Its not a burden for IITs i believe.. Its a result of hunger seen among engrng graduates for management education..
rani mehta: its not really true sumeet, coz iits were generated for excelling in technical field but now they r very good managment institutes too
Swati mukherjee: no its not mmthteyi84... they are providing managment education which is very weell established... its not like any other post graduate program. when iits can diversify so can iims... they need to prove their mettle in both fields...
Rohit Gautam: So its not talking about another courses being added into the system...or getting into some other field of edu..its about whether we are able to appreciate and enourage "innovators" and 'thinkers' who can take our country a lot into the future...and development
niks_bhargava: very true sumeet,tht is why iims shud make a step furthe and try to set up a gud system for technical education
navin hotwani: well what just now we can say is if IIM finds itself efficient enough to launch and provide good quality engg. education then only it shall move further or else establish a new institute with new faculties
niks_bhargava: i do agree vth swati
rani mehta: yes i wud agree with swati iims should get into engg field and come on top like they r rt now in managment field
nilesh gupta: The question that arises is that the IIT and IIM shld not envy each others sucess.Botha re reputed world class insti and they have the necessary resources to bmake it big in the field they want to.Question is not abt exclusivity but abt harmony b/w these insti.If the IIM thinks it is capable engh then why not?
navin hotwani: i would also comment on iits diversification, is iit efficient enough to provide good management education.
Rohit Gautam: IIM's need not prove nething but good innovators and entrepreuners
Swati mukherjee: yes we can appeciate innovators rohit... but the thing is that we are not taking about innovation... we are talking about whether iims can diversify... whether they can prove their prowess in both technical and managerial sudy...
saul hudson: well yes rani ,, they are ,,, but u forget one major factor here,,, the iits have gone ahead and taken concrete steps to raise the bar when it comes to quality of education imparted,,, and thus they have managed to establish their roots as the premier institutes for engg and then they have diversified into management
a_i_s_h2000: Management is something which is done and can be done by people belonging to various educational backgrounds and so I do not see IIMs taking a step backward and foraying into the field of engg. By doing this they would essentially emphasize the fact that engg is a prerequisite of management
mythreyi manepalli: swathi the iits graduates llok forward to a job or pg in mba or technical course hence the iits are providing the next platform to the graduates default choice unlike iim scenarrio
sumeet4me: For IITs to come into Management means.. equipping engineers with management capabilities.. but IIMs enrol people with background (essentially graduates).. will these people be interested in specializing in a new arena..
Rohit Gautam: they are not...for we know that management is not something to be crammed..its something which comes from within..
Swati mukherjee: yes thats true... but an iit engineer can succeed without an mba...
niks_bhargava: well as a matter of fact ,,when we r talking of diversification then we can alwaz talk of mr ratan lal tata,dhiru bhai ambani ,etc they all workd towards diversification so according to tat i cn surely conclude tat iim shud take the step forward sumeet4me: Yes Aish, i think IIMs into technicals will be going back to specialized sciences
Rohit Gautam: its good that IIM's are providing some extra edu. to the students,f they want to open some other courses...but,they should know what was the reason..they were founded in the country
rani mehta: ya slash dats wat i m trying to say, if iims really wanna get into the engg. field then y not but they just got to make sure dat they live up to their expectations coz if they get into engg field the expectation frm them wud be gr8 coz of their brand name
navin hotwani: it is seen that iit students go for iims for management education but is it ever seen that iim student searching for any engg. institute for his further fulfillment of technical knowledge
saul hudson: citing an example to prove my point ,,, i would like to remind you ppl about " GOOGLE"......when google started off,, it was just a search engine,,, tht was its strength,,,, google built upon its strength , then when it was in a commanding position asa search engine ,,, it slowly started diversifying by introducing new features....
rani mehta: and i m sure they wud by all means make sure dat they also raise their bars to the level of iits in technical education
Rohit Gautam: management is not only about having knowledge of engg..even a doctor,a student of commerce..might be a good manager. so do we mean to say that IIM's should also start courses in Medicals...and all??No
Swati mukherjee: the two are not interrelated... its just that we want the iims to diversify...ist true that ims started off for providing mgmt education,,, but why not prove themselves in some other skill as welll...
rani mehta: n_4 if after completing his mba iims student wants to go for m tech he wud definatiely go to iits. c people r going for iims coz they wanna do their pg in managment and after completing their grad at iit they go to iims
navin hotwani: i would like to say that education is to be acquired by the student and no matters if IIM and IITs are diversifying toward the different feild
sumeet4me: Yaa.. naveen.. we have to take into account the demand for that.. few IIM MBA will be willing to specialize into sciences.. IIMs prepare people for business.. while IITs for shop floor..
Swati mukherjee: i would like to stress again that we are not talking about whether engineer needs a mgmt degree or not.. its just that we have to let instis establish thier hold on other things as well...
Swati mukherjee: nothing of that sort sumeet...
a_i_s_h2000: Navin I do not think that once you are through IIM then u wud go back to engg or for that matter any other field.
navin hotwani: yes rani but u see a student at IIM will himself make him so comfortable for engg. feild that he need not have any degree for sake of job. he can prove himself to have a good knowledge of technoloy
sumeet4me: I too believe that IIMs should remain into what they r good at..
niks_bhargava: tats really not the case to be sumeet iits not at all make shop floors and iims an entrepreneur...i knw a lot of people whop have passd out frm iits and then they have strtd their own businesses and now theyve become a successful entrepreneur
Swati mukherjee: why do u assume that engineers will work on the shop floor... they might have skills for managament... but once again it depends on their interest
nilesh gupta: It is good to diversify and growth 4 IIM will come from diversification only as they have reached the pinnacle of mgmt education
mythreyi manepalli: i state that" iims starting an engineering course is unnecissary"though no one can prevent it from becoming a premier institute in engg if it wants to the important qouestion is what requires the iims to take such initiative
Swati mukherjee: yes thats true nilesh...i agree with you...
rani mehta: n-4 its not for sake of degree or job, its for knowledge and if u wanna know abt technical stuff then u wud go to iits
niks_bhargava: yeah exactly thts wat ive been trying to explain ,i agree vth swati
navin hotwani: swati to the extent i know abt engg. courses now a days they are also having mgt subjects also
nilesh gupta: who knows perhaps opening an engg college will help the IIM gain exp. which they might use in the mgmt courses
sumeet4me: I clarify here people.. its not bad to be on shop floor.. lot of managers even do that.. I meant to say that IITs prepare people for technical aspects of business
Swati mukherjee: you cant assume that iims will definitely estabish themselves as a engg instituie... they have to prove themselves...
Rohit Gautam: its not necessary for IIM's to get into engg...then I'd say someday that please start the courses in medicals...please start courses in Arts..and all...so,should they do that to???
a_i_s_h2000: What led IITs to the establishment of management was that many enggs felt that the next step in their career is a degree in management. IIMs have no such issues.
Rohit Gautam: its not so i guess...
sumeet4me: One big thing here is that IIM graduates themselves carry a big exp into specialized sciences/ commerce..
nilesh gupta: aish this is b/c till date indians have not found a dgree of grater staus than MBA Swati mukherjee: aish why are you looking at it that way,,, maybe the iits just wanted to prove they can handle mgmt as well...
a_i_s_h2000: Nilesh I think the people at IIMs have enough exp and they do not require to open a engg institute to gain exp
niks_bhargava: there were far reaching comments bout the different iims and the iits but the group couldnt to 1 conclusion whether the iims shud start the course or not
www.UrPercentile.com: Thanks everyone, request everyone to give a concluding statement .
niks_bhargava: the group discussed the pros and cons of the education and also discussed about the diversification tat the iims can come up vth
a_i_s_h2000: I conclude by saying that though IIMs may foray into engg but the condition shud be that their prospects on the management side shud not be affected and that I do not see them going into such a direction.
Rohit Gautam: I guess its not necessary for IIM's to start the engg. courses,and going to much deeper levels...basic introduction is always good..but,the other side of the coin is whether they are able to achieve the results for which they were founded...if no..then,they should better focus on some strategies..to give the country, "Innovators", Managers and "thinkers"
Swati mukherjee: Well I feel the iims should give a shot at technical educationa as well... they can prve to be a good technical institute in addition to the managerial one they already are... and showcase their talent at imparting technical education..
rani mehta: i dont think there is any need for iims to get into engg feild but if they wanna enter into it, i wud like to say dat they have to make sure dat they provide technical education at par with iits coz dat wud be expected frm them coz of their brand name. mythreyi manepalli: the gd topic was why shouldntthe iims start engg,here is my reason because unlike iits where mba fits into future scheme of things of graduate the iims initiative is a step backword hence we cannot compare the actions.moreover the iims are into manageemnt their next step would be towards better management initiative not diversification hence the idea is not feasabile
sumeet4me: Bulk of engineers going into management education can be a reason why IITs started their own courses into it.. While there is no such case for IIMs. Also IIM graduates themselves carry a big exp into specialized sciences/ commerce.. hence they might be little willing to have specialization studies.. It will be better i believe that IIMs concentrate on their strengths..
saul hudson: basically i believe that the iims still have a lot of ground work to be done.... although they have established their credibility as a premier b school , i beieve they can lend their expertise to upcoming and lesser equipped b schools ,,, this shall result in the new crop of managers tht come up to be of a good standard.....basically ,, i think that the iims have a responsibility toward society ,,, that of raising the bar of management education ( as a whole) tht is being imparted in india today..... i believe tht diversifying into engg would completely dilute this objective .....i think they should remember thei raison' de 'etre and improvise on wht they are so good at
nilesh gupta: I think that IIM shld diversify into engg eduaction but not only 4 the sake of it.I believe that before any venture they will have done their own analysis which i presume wuld offer more insights than we can currently think.If they want to they must.Engg and mgmt r not exclusive one nedds the help of another.On the practical side it will be better as we will get 6 new and world class engg colleges
www.UrPercentile.com: The response for this CHAT GD was so good , that we had two sessions going on at the same time. The topic was same in both the sessions. Will send analysis in couple of days. So later you can read what was discussed on the same topic in the other session that was going on simultaneously.
niks_bhargava: thx a lot urpercentile, we had a gr8 time
rani mehta: hey mm y u thinking it in the future way only people can get engg degree in the iim institue i mean wats wrong in dat
niks_bhargava: cheers to urpercentile
nilesh gupta: Thnx a lot Rohit Gautam: thnx a lot..urpercentile
nilesh gupta: cheers Swati mukherjee: thanks urpercentile... we had a great time..