arun thejaswi: Hello everyone I am Arun Thejaswi from Kerala
floralbonjour: priyanka, comps engg, mumbai
ANUP CHADA: hi .. i am anup frm chennai completed engg and waiting for calls
chetan KIRTANE: hello..friends this is chetan kirtane from mumbai doing my T.E CIVIL..(VJTI)
gocrazy4kunal 11: hello everyone i m kunal from bhubaneswar kiit deemed university
Crazy Boy: Hi Harnish. doing B.Tech (IT)
bhatiapuneet22: hello everyone i'm puneet from baroda done my B.E.(EC) in 2004
www.UrPercentile.com: The topic of the GD : IF IITs can go into Management education, IIMs should also start Engineering courses
bhatiapuneet22: Well freiends we have been given a very interesting topic i.e whether or not IIMs should go into Engineering courses on the same lines as that of IITs
Crazy Boy: Well i think everyone has his own way of thinking n has his own priorities so it shouldnt be the case that if one top institute does one thing the other one should follow it
www.UrPercentile.com: No one-liners. Don’t be in a hurry to send message. Think and write complete paragraphs.
floralbonjour: IIM specialises in management and if there is a specialisation it shud remain so.introducing engg can deviate its specialisation
Gayatri Sundaram: well its nt soo good that IIMs start Engg courses coz already soo many Engg colleges are there and more over the number is juz increasing . so it wld be unwise if IIMs go in to Engg
Crazy Boy: Besides i think its really easy to switch from Engineering to Management coz the there isnt a need for a lot of infrastructure in management but when u start Engineering courses u requiere lots of labs n various equipment so its not feasible Financially according to me
arun thejaswi: Each and every institute haas got its own reputation and a very particular field of study and I think IIMs have a broad range of specialists of all disciplines so starting an engineering course wud surely narrow down its scope
Crazy Boy: BUt Gayatri same can be said abt the number of management institutes
ANUP CHADA: from the present scenario it is evident that iits are institutes which specialise in engg and iims in mgmt and it would be great if they stick to their areas of cognizance
gocrazy4kunal 11: well i feel that the model given by IIT should not be followed at IIM's ya u might be bit surprised but i feel that the management institute of iit donot stand in top 10 n so it is not the best management education that we can expect , engineering is their domain n they are undoubtedly best at it , similar is the case for IIM,s managment is their domain n they should stress on that only n not dilute their core area , other wise the result will not be very encoraging
bhatiapuneet22: Well IITs being one of the most premier institutes in India considered at par with many best universities and colleges in the world, realised the importance of the great combination of combining engg with management. They r fully aware of the fact that engineers have made top notch managers in the past few years with most of them coming from
IITs. Also the results of the past few yrs of IIM indicate that majority of the students selected come from premier engg colleges mainly from IIT. So if IIM can start its own engg courses it could prove out to be a great combination.
Anish Jacob: Though it is very well known that IITs have startedd MBA colleges which are recognised as being excellent, a fact that is casually ignored is that the MBA students in IITs are second class citizens.Moreover there is still a need for good
quality Management education where as with the huge number of engg colleges already present it will be meaningless to start more.Moreover the IIMs at present are concentrating on expanding beyond Indian borders so that is their main aim at this time.Trying to go in different directions may be a bad idea
Gayatri Sundaram: yeah crazy but then when it comes to Engg already over 300 Colleges juz in the state of TN not so many management institutes
arun thejaswi: I agree with what bumseykmr has said thats the right point
chetan KIRTANE: no..i guess..bcoz iim is meant for management..and there is a lack of good managers in our country..same in tht case if u see ..the no.of graduates passing out with engg degree in mumbai university .is atleast abt 25-40000 candidates..so there is no need as such for the iim, to start engg courses..
ANUP CHADA: once the institutes try to venture into other fields there is every chance for them to miss the track in which they are cognizant in ... because its natural for every institution to give importance to the new project in hand
gocrazy4kunal 11: well i agree with bumsey when he points that they are now expaniding overseas n so they should excel in that field .
A MBA Aspirant: yeah but also luk at the number of people doing engineering but dont take it that iam supporting IIM's having an engineering college. Well c its one thing introducing somehting but at IIM's u'll expect the engineering to be of top quality@floral
floralbonjour: though i agree with infrastructure prob it won't be a big deal to introduce engg, but to reach the level of IIT's engg , IIM will take time and shudn'te xpect it to happen fast, the engg introduced there will lack experence in former years and ppl
won't just take admisssion because of name , theyw ill think of experience
arun thejaswi: MBA is something which gives importance to all filds of study not just engg or Bio sciences IIM have heterogeneous batches and I think that is what attracts the attention of all those companies over the wide spectra
ANUP CHADA: it would require lot of groundwork , administrative and management changes , allocation of grants most of all it would take some time for them to develop the way they have in their area of speciality
Gayatri Sundaram: more over the cost of ivestment fr engg is much more higher they need to hav excellent infrastructure to make it attract students coz already there are hell alota engg college
Anish Jacob: Yes the IITs have taken years to reach the peaks that they now command but according to a recent survey by business world the IIT mngmnt colleges will attain top 10 status with the next couple of years. I meaning they took years to get
bhatiapuneet22: But if we try to look at the degrees of the professors teaching at IIMs we 'll find that majority of the professors out there r IIT passouts. So I feel that engineers passing out from IIMs could prove to be a much better or rather a deadly combination of engineering n management skills. Also the corporate world could benefit a whole lot from this combination.
gocrazy4kunal 11: when u r good at one thing it is not that u will have expertise in all fields but i agree with the contention that IIM's can do it , but at the same time their focus will be divided n so they will grow in managerial education but not at the similar rate they are growing now , so i feel that on introspection we will get to see that if donot dilute our focus n tread one goal we achieve better results , see what we need in india is not many ENGINEERING COLLEGES BUT QUALITY COLLEGES, n i feel that its better to be a master of one trade than being a jack of all trades
A MBA Aspirant: But Puneet u wont have the same professor teachiong both management n Engineering courses, Well Kunal u can be Jack of all trades n Master of one Gayatri Sundaram: i doubt more over if they open engg wld they b able to work on the qlty factor havin too many branches to handle. it wld b totally unwise decision
Anish Jacob: sry i mean they took years to reach their status but now that they are their they are capitalising on it to boost their mngmnt colleges too.The IIMs can do that too but as of now only IIM A is in the top 100 of the worlds colleges so before they can think of diverging they need to improve their own status in the MBA market
ANUP CHADA: i beleive iims are institutes which impart quality management course to its students and iits impart quality engg education ... they should stick to their resp areas and attain greater heights
floralbonjour: basically , starting an engg course will be equivalent to starting a new engg college . so it shudn't matter if they want to start or not. what matters is whether they can have that quality of engg.if they can pull in good profs (as in expereinced ones) what is wrong? let them go about it.
gocrazy4kunal 11: well gayatri i disagree with u on the point of providing infrastructure , as we can see that if they have done in management why cannot in engineering so plz elaborate aakriti mehta: i think iims should stick to mgmt n not go to engg as it would divide their resources in 2. they have their specialisation in mgmt n iits have it in engg. the whole pt of havin 2 separate types of institutes for engg n mgmt was so that they do not confuse their priorities
A MBA Aspirant: Well Kunal i think infrastructue reqd for engieering courses is more then tht for management i mean labs etc everything, u requiere lots of expensive equipments specially in branches like automobile engg. n Civil n aeronautical
Anish Jacob: But that argument no longer applies looking at the course taken by the IITs pink floralbonjour: in management too they have varied specialisations , so engg can be built too, IIm's have a lot of money remember
Gayatri Sundaram: though they got infrastructre kunal they are nt in top 10 B schools in world tht they begin diverging to Engg also .. more over if they stick on to one thing and work towards attaining supermacy i belive tht works more
A MBA Aspirant: Yeah pink iam sure if IIM's go tht way they r gonna have a new lot of teachers teaching these courses
aakriti mehta: as for the question of iits doin mgmt courses, it is commonly known that their mgmt courses r nowhere near their engg course in terms of quality. iims r brand name so they should not associate themselves with lower quality product jus to prove a point abt their abilities.
ANUP CHADA: and of course with the mushrooming of management schools and engg colleges all over the country it is vital to hav a set of institutions which impart high quality education they too shouldnt join the bandwagon and kind of swap areas of specialities and try to attain expetise and fame in newer areas arun thejaswi: apart from that IIM is Indian institute of management and then how wud u call it??IIM with engineering??wouldnt that sound awkward??and moreover if IIM's have to have an engg course it must be at par with its Mngt degree on reputation which means it wud require teachers facilities linkages that r not mediocre but world class
gocrazy4kunal 11: well frends try to see the whole thing in a broader persepctive see that will we have same quality of engg colleges as expected from IIM,s rather i would wish that they focus on managment only n increase the seats there along with other facilites , as frends statistics show that FOR 1 IIM-A SEAT THERE ARE 750 CONTENDERS BUT FOR 1 HARVARD SEAT THERE ARE ONLY 13 , SO
A MBA Aspirant: yeah i second Gayatri on tht if ur main goal is to be in top 10 B Schools in the world then first attain it rather then divulging to other fields
bhatiapuneet22: Of course I agree with kunal that to implement premier qlty of engg course it will take some time maybe a few yrs but since IIMs have already topped in mgment can't they top it in engrr too. Besides just thing of the tag that an IIM engr will be having i.e passed out from IIM. Well we could call IIMs as IIME Indian inst of mgment and Engr.
chetan KIRTANE: ya i agree to what u say "bumsey"...but do u think..there is a real need of engg in the present scenario,,if u say in quality education..then yes they shd go ahead with the idea but..if u c the reality ..every year..many engg colleges open...with a view of giving better infrastructure and other teaching facilities do they satisfy the need ?...so its better either we upgrade the present institutes like NIT's.AND OTHER regional colleges to the level.,,of IIT'S .
Gayatri Sundaram: IIM only means Indian Institute of Management nt Engg tht they shld get into
aakriti mehta: also the resources that would be diverted by iims towards engg course could be better utilised to improve facilities of mgmt course or set up newer campuses of iimsas is the current demand in the country
A MBA Aspirant: atleast not till they achieve there goal of being top 10 B Sch0ool in the world
Gayatri Sundaram: rightly said
ANUP CHADA: these institutes are a benchmark in their respective fields and they should strive harder and provide best possible education in a global perspective
arun thejaswi: I think It would be prudent enough if Instead of satrting engineering courses IIMs should start management courses suited for particular fields of engineering as they already have done in case of SEM
gocrazy4kunal 11: so think what is the need now i feel that they should expand their horizons in managerial education n it will serve a better purpose n when i hear that IIM-A N IIM-B are planning to open campus overseas , i really feel that the work is commendable
A MBA Aspirant: Well but i think one alternative to this can be IIM's sort of giving their land to other unoversities to start engineering courses in their premises
Anish Jacob: But i digress...The IIM should stick to their own field for all these reason-1)they are already looking at expansions2)the past HRD ministry and the current one dont seem to be very much inclined to favour the IIM points of view and mite be very opposed to any such actions and 3) the already mentioned need of excellence in their own field once they reach that then they can go further and become complete universities
A MBA Aspirant: in this way they will also generate some more revenue
ANUP CHADA: as one our friends said they can perhaps venture into allied management or engg programs whichevr applicable for better understanding instead of establishing separate schools
aakriti mehta: i agree with athejaswi that iims should expand their curriculum to include current tech like mgmt of info sys(mis) or telecom mgmt instead of opting for pure engg course. this will give a mgmt degree with a technical focus
gocrazy4kunal 11: as my frends rightly pointed out that the need of the hour is diversify the managerial education , make that education in reach of common masses without compromising on quality , by doing this u will do a better job of nation building
A MBA Aspirant: Well pink i thing MBA is a specialized degree n let it remain so dont mix it with engineering
Anish Jacob: That is the main aim of the IITs-that they can offer complete higher education as a one stop option but chetan u r right the govt shud iimprove NITS first but u forget agn the IIMS are semi-independant wasnt that the whole controversy about last year
aakriti mehta: this expn will allow them to increase their intake (satisfying the demands of students) n also cater to wider avenues without diverting frm their core strength which is mgmt Gayatri Sundaram: no crazy tht wld b bad idea coz generating revenue is nt main thing here rather i wld say that its more wiser to concentrate on qlty of MBA n make it one of the top 10 b schools floralbonjour: but separate skools wont do harm. wat i wnzt to raise apoint is IIT is gained its name coz of excellent teaching. as long as excellent profs teach, expanding itno engg won't be abad idea . and they cn also side by side work towards improving managemnt. in an era of multi tasking if IIm can't show an eg of multitasking then what managemnt skills will it show? A MBA Aspirant: yeah but Gayatri iam not saying tht IIM's themself start n engineering college maybe allow another universities like IIT or nyother top one to start engineering courses u just have to give them land n iam sure they have lots of spare land in their campus
gocrazy4kunal 11: ya i too agree that working on their syallabus is required now , the need is to diversify their subjects n open new subjects under managerial education , as it is seen n felt tat thei r syallabi is now outdated compared to top rung B-SCHOOLS of the world
ANUP CHADA: getting admission into either of the 2 institutions is very challenging and competetion is increasing manyfolds every year ... taking this point into consideration it would be great to see them co existing as separate institutions dedicated to engg and management education
www.UrPercentile.com: Thanks everyone, request everyone to give a concluding statement . aakriti mehta: multitaskin is fine in its own right but if that brings down the level of mgmt education in iims because of lesser resources n diversion of interests then multitaskin is harmful rather than beneficial
bhatiapuneet22: I agree with u chetan, but actually we are comparing IIMs with those other engr colleges we r forgetting the fact that the IITs also started mgment bcoz they thought that it would be an excellent combination if they could have the graduation as well as the PG under one roof. Of course IITs r not yet providing that qlty of mgment but they are picking up. Also just imagine the job opportuinities that a student of IIM(engr+mgment) could have. Besides they could also start their own entrance exams for engr so they can hav top notch students right from graduation. This exam could be considered atleast at par with CAT.And then IIm could emerge as on the premier 'BE' school i.e. "business + engineerin'" school.
gocrazy4kunal 11: well i feel crazyboy u r not clear be a bit more clear
chetan KIRTANE: no ..the top 3 iima, iim b iim c r not dependent in any way..the grants given by the govt....other iims r still dependent..thts y..the iim-a,b.c r eager to setup campus abroad...but failed....the process is still on..i guess..
A MBA Aspirant: Well Kunal iam just saying tht IIM's probably allow another top universities to start an Engineering college in their premises
aakriti mehta: eg it is better to juggle 5 balls n not drop them rather than juggle 10 n drop all.
Gayatri Sundaram: well it wld b totally unwise of IIM to start an Engg course with them rather they shld try to work on the qlty of Mgmt studies
arun thejaswi: well floral multi tasking doesnt mean offerin diverse degrees in case of IIMs however be the multitasking think of a situation where a doctor is put into the job of a policeman will he be able to perform well??No but to a layman who knows him just as a policeman wud belive that the fellow is incompetent which wud dent his image that given an option, ppl would choose any IIM over an IIT.. hence IIT mba becomes second rung.. Why would the IIMs want to part with some of their shine by starting a second rung engineering... They are already doing brilliantly in mba and can only improve from here
A MBA Aspirant: Well think abt it Financially
bhatiapuneet22: Also think of the pressures and the tension that the IIM engg students could already be experienced to cope up with giving them greater opportunities to tackle the corporate world in future
aakriti mehta: all iims and iits nyways face huge pressure so goin to either one is no less strenuous than the other
arun thejaswi: well financially too astronomical amounts of money may be required but think of the scenario if this backfired.all the taxpayers mone wud go down the drain for nothing
Anish Jacob: Ultimately i think we are all partly agreed that the IIMs wont be doing the rite thing by trying their hand at engg.but it would be an ok idea to improve other engg colleges.If at all they do diversify it shoudl be after excelling further in their own field
www.UrPercentile.com: Thanks everyone, request everyone to give a concluding statement . The response for this CHAT GD was so good , that we had two sessions going on at the same time. The topic was same in both the sessions. Will send analysis in couple of days. So later you can read what was discussed on the same topic in the other session that was going on simultaneously.
A MBA Aspirant: Well it was a gud discussion some important points were raised like Diversification of resources n being master of one rather then jack of all trades but i still strongly feel that it wont be wise on the part of IIM's to start Engineering courses rather they shld concentrate on getting to top 10 B Schools in the world n only once they achieve it they should go for ny other course
ANUP CHADA: concl statement : it would be great if iits stick to their area of cognizance of providing high quality engg education and iims in providing management education .... its always better for an institution to attain greater heights in the area of speciality and bring more students under its fold rather than diversifying and explore new horizons
bhatiapuneet22: Well why can't an institute expand itself in all fields like just look at Reliance. If it has done well in Petroleum and oil sector in refineries sector why should it create Reliance infocomm and emerge as a global leader in telecommunications. It should only have had concentrated on oil sector. Why did it make such a big investment in Telecom sector-- only to expand and innovate.
aakriti mehta: concluding, i think we all agreed to some extent that startin of engg courses by iim after seein iit doin mgmt courses is a drain on their resources n they would be better off stickin to their core competence ie mgmt
gocrazy4kunal 11: so summing up the discussion i wish to tell that , the need of the hour is to open new subjects in managerial education n make them at par with top MBA institutes of world , rather than opening engineering colleges concentrate n work on ur domain leave the technical education to IIT's n others if u make management education within reach of common masses n a house hold education u will do a better job of NATION BUILDING n donot dilute urs core n if u do so i m sure u will be compromising on urs managment education , which will ultimately be a CATASTROPHE for all, WHAT WE NEED IS DEVELOPED INDIA BY 2020 ANUP CHADA: as the old saying goes its better to be a moster of one than being jack of all trades arun thejaswi: ok guys since the time is over i think we have unanimously declared that let IIMs be IIMs and nothing else
www.UrPercentile.com: Thanks everyone.
Gayatri Sundaram: thanks moderators arun thejaswi: thank u friendzzzzzz, and moderators too A MBA Aspirant: THnks u frnds
ANUP CHADA: exactly let the institutes be as they are and acheive greater cognizance
arun thejaswi: good night bhatiapuneet22: well to conclude I would say if u can achieve success in one field u should try going ahead and reach out in those areas which are actually linked to what u r doing at present. Who knows IIMs could change the entire concept of engg?